In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Jeni and Calvin, the dynamic duo behind PowerfuLove Relationships. Dr. Jeni, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and Calvin, a transformational life and relationship coach, share their journey of love, growth, and second chances. After breaking up for seven years and marrying other people, they found their way back to each other and now help couples create extraordinary relationships, particularly within the LGBTQ+ community. We dive deep into the importance of love, authenticity, and transformation, offering practical insights to strengthen any relationship. Tune in for this inspiring conversation filled with lessons, laughter, and love!
[00:00:02] Okay. We do heat edits, so if we have to stop or whatnot that'll be fine.
[00:00:13] No worries.
[00:00:13] That's amazing. How do you make it quick? Because editing seems so hard.
[00:00:23] So, and you said that, but I thought it was amazing when we did the live and then it's posted.
[00:00:30] Yeah.
[00:00:32] But he used to do the editing in GarageBand.
[00:00:38] Okay.
[00:00:38] And then I found a platform that Adobe has.
[00:00:44] It pulls up the audio, but it also pulls up the transcript.
[00:00:48] Nice.
[00:00:48] And so you can click through and so I helped a little bit once we found that. Just a little.
[00:00:55] Very cool.
[00:00:56] So.
[00:00:57] And the rest of our stuff is pre-recorded, so I'm able to just place the file in the spot.
[00:01:05] Download the master recording and place the file in the spot. So it's just like time it up and everything.
[00:01:11] It's not that, you know.
[00:01:12] I mean, in the beginning, hell yeah, it was hard.
[00:01:16] Yeah.
[00:01:17] That's what I'm saying.
[00:01:18] But that's how good it is.
[00:01:19] You know.
[00:01:20] 30, 60 times.
[00:01:22] I don't know how many times now.
[00:01:23] Which I still would like to get to the point of the lives and just be done.
[00:01:29] Yeah.
[00:01:31] I take the video and I make, through a platform, make shorts from the videos, but he does all
[00:01:41] the audio and it would just be nice.
[00:01:43] Like when we were done with y'all to be done and it was.
[00:01:48] Yeah.
[00:01:49] So.
[00:01:50] We'll get to that point, right?
[00:01:52] Sure.
[00:01:54] Yeah.
[00:01:55] Yeah.
[00:01:56] All right.
[00:01:56] We're going to get started.
[00:02:00] Well.
[00:02:01] For poops and giggles.
[00:02:07] Like we're not wrong.
[00:02:09] So.
[00:02:10] So.
[00:02:11] Who has the master last name?
[00:02:15] The master last name.
[00:02:17] Right.
[00:02:18] The main.
[00:02:19] Both of you have different last names on the.
[00:02:23] Yeah.
[00:02:24] So, I, you know, usually when I say a couple of this, usually.
[00:02:29] Jenny and Calvin last name.
[00:02:32] Just say first name.
[00:02:33] I just don't want to, you know.
[00:02:35] Well, we, well, we're not, we're not legally married.
[00:02:38] So.
[00:02:39] And.
[00:02:40] And if we were ever to.
[00:02:43] Yeah.
[00:02:44] Be married, it probably still wouldn't be legal.
[00:02:46] Cause.
[00:02:46] Yeah.
[00:02:46] We wouldn't change our names.
[00:02:48] We still wouldn't change our names.
[00:02:49] Okay.
[00:02:49] So I can.
[00:02:51] Yeah.
[00:02:51] So that's what I want to make sure is cool with.
[00:02:53] I call you by your last name.
[00:02:55] You call me.
[00:02:56] I'm going to say the wrong thing.
[00:02:57] You'd be like, it's such and such, you know?
[00:03:00] Nope.
[00:03:02] Okay.
[00:03:03] The girl just, the girl just pulled up.
[00:03:06] I asked her.
[00:03:07] Well, I can call her real quick.
[00:03:10] Um, I'm sorry.
[00:03:12] I, a kid drove, came, pulled up and I had a question for her.
[00:03:17] No worries.
[00:03:23] Now, Jenny has that.
[00:03:24] Hey.
[00:03:24] Walig.
[00:03:25] Walig.
[00:03:26] Yep.
[00:03:27] Okay.
[00:03:28] And Calvinettes.
[00:03:29] Oh, silly.
[00:03:31] Okay.
[00:03:31] No, it's O.
[00:03:32] Silly.
[00:03:33] O.
[00:03:33] Silly.
[00:03:33] Or we're about to.
[00:03:34] Sorry.
[00:03:36] I just want to make sure I say everybody's name right on.
[00:03:39] Okay.
[00:03:40] Yeah.
[00:03:41] Appreciate that.
[00:03:42] Okay.
[00:03:43] Get your mom some money.
[00:03:44] Love you, man.
[00:03:46] Bye.
[00:03:47] And dad some money too.
[00:03:50] All right.
[00:03:51] Um.
[00:03:52] All right.
[00:03:53] So who's going to start?
[00:03:56] I know I already made the mom knocker, so I think you need to start.
[00:04:00] Glad you recognize that growth.
[00:04:04] That's beautiful.
[00:04:06] I apologize, but I work.
[00:04:07] Not at all.
[00:04:07] Okay.
[00:04:08] I worked day shifts since Sunday.
[00:04:11] Mm.
[00:04:12] Today was my first day off and I was just like.
[00:04:15] Was it a day off though?
[00:04:17] Well, I mean, I did light work.
[00:04:19] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:20] Yeah.
[00:04:21] Light work.
[00:04:21] Trying to work on a car for a family member.
[00:04:24] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:25] You know, it's like, oh my, my backyard is getting congested with vehicles.
[00:04:30] Oh, fun.
[00:04:31] Things different.
[00:04:31] So it's like, in my mind, when she's told me, man, there ain't no rush.
[00:04:35] But in my mind, it's like, I need to get that car out of the way.
[00:04:38] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:39] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:40] Yeah.
[00:04:41] Clear up the backyard.
[00:04:42] Yeah.
[00:04:42] Clear up the energy.
[00:04:44] I wish I had that skill, but I surely don't.
[00:04:48] Wish I could teach you virtually, but.
[00:04:50] And as soon as that one is gone, there'll be another one there.
[00:04:55] Right.
[00:04:56] So I don't know what the rush is.
[00:04:57] But anyways.
[00:04:58] Yeah.
[00:05:00] All right.
[00:05:01] I'll start then.
[00:05:03] We don't have to do.
[00:05:06] We just start with the intro thing.
[00:05:09] Yeah.
[00:05:10] So we just start with.
[00:05:12] All right.
[00:05:12] It's been a while, y'all.
[00:05:14] I'm sorry.
[00:05:15] No.
[00:05:15] We've been doing interviews.
[00:05:18] Um, and so this is the first time we've given an interview in a minute.
[00:05:23] Um, all right.
[00:05:24] So I'm going to get us started.
[00:05:28] All right.
[00:05:29] Welcome back on this episode.
[00:05:31] We have another special love story that we're sharing with you coming from Jenny and Calvin.
[00:05:38] And so first we'd like to thank you for sharing with us and our listeners and being here.
[00:05:44] And we will give you a moment to introduce yourselves individually, and then we'll start getting all the juicy details about the two of you and your love story.
[00:05:55] Sure.
[00:05:55] Cool.
[00:05:55] Thank you for having us.
[00:05:57] It's an honor and a pleasure to be here.
[00:05:59] Absolutely.
[00:06:00] My name is Dr. Jenny Wallach, and I am a co-founder alongside with Cal of Powerful Love Relationships.
[00:06:12] Uh, we are like going through an epic or have been going through an epic love story, which I'm sure we'll get into soon that has inspired us both to create this business, to help other couples, uh, have relationships that are unshakable and that totally delight them.
[00:06:35] Yeah.
[00:06:35] Cause that's what we figured out.
[00:06:36] So I have a background in, uh, couple and family therapy, been a relationship nerd my whole life.
[00:06:43] Um, queer polyam parent to four kids.
[00:06:49] Yep.
[00:06:50] Um, I'm not sure what else to say about myself.
[00:06:53] Delighted to be here.
[00:06:54] Love having these conversations.
[00:06:56] Yeah.
[00:06:58] What about you love?
[00:06:59] Yeah.
[00:07:00] I'm Calvin O'Seely, uh, the other half of Powerful Love.
[00:07:05] Um, yeah, together we co-parent four kids.
[00:07:09] I feel like that's a really big element to some of the, um, pressures and dynamics of also being an entrepreneurial couple.
[00:07:17] Mm hmm.
[00:07:18] Um, but you know, we've, we've known each other for quite some time.
[00:07:22] Mm hmm.
[00:07:22] Um, our richness in our story is that we dated for a year, broke up for seven.
[00:07:28] Mm hmm.
[00:07:28] Married, married other people.
[00:07:30] Married other people in that time.
[00:07:32] Uh, had kids and now have come together in a, you know, creating our blended family.
[00:07:39] Mm hmm.
[00:07:39] Um, and you know, there's just been a lot of peaks and valleys along the way.
[00:07:45] And so, um, you know, I am not someone who studied relationships as a background.
[00:07:53] Like my background is actually, um, in healthcare.
[00:07:56] And I was on a mission to become a medical doctor.
[00:08:01] The universe had other plans for me.
[00:08:03] So I went the IT medical route and stayed in that, um, vein for quite some time until like, I just really realized that this is not what I was put on the earth to do.
[00:08:13] Uh, I knew that like coaching and, um, I don't know, sharing the good news to people around me was really what I felt called to do.
[00:08:23] Um, and I just so happened that doing it with relationships is like a secret calling.
[00:08:31] I didn't realize I had, cause like, we really sucked at relationships for so long.
[00:08:35] Yeah.
[00:08:37] Um, like early on in our relationship is like, if you would have told me 10, 15 years ago that this is what I'd be doing, I would have fell on the floor hysterically laughing because like I was bad at relationships.
[00:08:50] Um, and yeah, so that's like the peaks of our relationship story.
[00:08:57] Mm-hmm.
[00:08:58] Well, awesome.
[00:08:59] I mean, we, so there was a episode that we posted recently and, and one of the clips, um, the, the woman said you, you succeed by failing.
[00:09:11] Mm-hmm.
[00:09:11] And so it's good that you took those relationship, um, not wins, that's what we're supposed to do.
[00:09:20] We're supposed to learn and grow.
[00:09:22] And that's, and that's pretty, uh, similar to us.
[00:09:26] Uh, we met, we, teenagers, we call ourselves going together, whatever you want to call it.
[00:09:33] And, uh, it wasn't that long cause.
[00:09:37] Cause you, yep.
[00:09:40] Had to be something that I was not, which was the term player.
[00:09:44] And, uh, that didn't work out for me.
[00:09:46] So.
[00:09:47] But here we are.
[00:09:48] Yep.
[00:09:48] So, so, okay.
[00:09:54] Met, dated for a year.
[00:09:57] Mm-hmm.
[00:09:57] Broke up for seven.
[00:09:59] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:00] And how long have you been back together now?
[00:10:03] In March it'll be 10.
[00:10:06] Yes.
[00:10:06] Wow.
[00:10:08] Yeah.
[00:10:09] So did both of you get married to other people or?
[00:10:13] We did.
[00:10:13] And, okay.
[00:10:15] So let's, okay.
[00:10:16] I had to clear that.
[00:10:18] Okay.
[00:10:19] So Jenny, you said in your introduction, you said you've always been a relationship nerd.
[00:10:25] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:26] So did you grow up seeing that loving relationship that you wanted to emulate?
[00:10:31] Or did you see the opposite and thought, I need to do this different?
[00:10:36] You know, I, I didn't see necessarily a like bad, conflictual, harmful relationship by any means.
[00:10:49] I was very privileged in my, my growing up.
[00:10:52] Um, but, but, and my parents were certainly not in love.
[00:10:56] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:57] I didn't see them being really affectionate.
[00:11:01] I didn't see them really laughing together or enjoying their time together.
[00:11:06] And I'm not even, I'm not quite sure how or if that is what shaped me or what it was that shaped me.
[00:11:14] But the, but my earliest memory of it was being like 10 years old and having a crush on my neighbor and wondering if he and I were going to get married.
[00:11:25] Um, and like, and then every, every new crush after that was like, I think that's the person that I'm going to marry.
[00:11:34] Like I would wish on stars for the person that I was going to marry.
[00:11:38] I would like my fifth grade crush.
[00:11:41] I like tried to track him all the way into, I think eighth grade.
[00:11:44] Cause like maybe he was going to be the guy I was going to marry every single fricking relationship.
[00:11:49] And so I went through, you know, I was like a serial monogamous as soon as I could start dating, which was at like 13, 14.
[00:11:59] And it was rare that I wasn't in a relationship with someone because I was always looking for the one that I was going to marry.
[00:12:05] And it was ironic that I, it turns out that I identify as polyamorous, which is not, you know, knowing that I can love and be in relationship with multiple people at a time and not having to have just one person to marry.
[00:12:20] Um, which was how I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'll just segue, which was how Cal and I found our way back to one another.
[00:12:28] Um, cause he also identified as polyam.
[00:12:31] Yeah.
[00:12:31] And then, and then those other marriages ended up not working out.
[00:12:36] And now, uh, even though we're both still polyamorous, we are, um, consciously monogamous at this point in our time.
[00:12:44] And so it feels like, Oh, I finally found the one.
[00:12:47] Yeah.
[00:12:48] In a way.
[00:12:49] Yeah.
[00:12:49] That's all, all, all full circle.
[00:12:52] It's been a journey.
[00:12:54] So Calvin, did you have that?
[00:12:58] And what was your take on relationship?
[00:13:01] I mean, was it something that was like in the back of your head?
[00:13:03] You know, I'll get to it when I get to it.
[00:13:05] Or did you have that kind of same thing where you're seeking out the one?
[00:13:15] Um, I think I was seeking out the one to a degree, right?
[00:13:19] There's, there's, I think for folks who are born between like mid sixties, like eighties, there's this like expectation that your life follows a certain time trajectory.
[00:13:32] Like certain expectations that you do well in school and high school.
[00:13:36] So that prepares you to get into college.
[00:13:39] Right.
[00:13:39] College opens the doors to this magical world of corporate life or whatever it is.
[00:13:45] Right.
[00:13:45] These wonderful high paying jobs that just fulfill everything in your life.
[00:13:49] Yeah.
[00:13:50] So I was following this lie.
[00:13:52] Um, and like feeling as though I needed to be married and needed to like be settled in a relationship, needed to prove honestly to her at the time that like I did care that much, so much about her that.
[00:14:12] Your former wife.
[00:14:13] Yeah.
[00:14:13] That I was willing to do this kind of thing, like proving it.
[00:14:17] Um, and there's like no end of proving it.
[00:14:20] I was going to convince her that I loved her.
[00:14:22] It was like just the flaw in our dynamic and mental health things, et cetera.
[00:14:30] Um, her own stuff.
[00:14:31] Um, but you know, it, it was, it was just sort of like me living the life that, that I was expected to live, but like wasn't authentic to what I really wanted and desired for my life.
[00:14:46] Right.
[00:14:47] Right.
[00:14:47] Right.
[00:14:48] Do you think that, um, and we've been, you know, on social media and we're in a bunch of different, uh, Facebook groups and, uh, people have all these relationship issues, these marriage issues and not just marriage, but relationship issues.
[00:15:06] Um, and, you know, the problem is the monogamy, the, the, the, the, you know, the, uh, adultery, the, there's so many issues.
[00:15:19] And do you think if people, many people are seeking out, you know, I guess what I'm, what am I trying to ask there?
[00:15:27] You know what I'm trying to ask?
[00:15:29] I have no clue.
[00:15:29] No, that's a good thing to record.
[00:15:30] But I guess, I guess what I'm trying to get at is like being that you found your true self while you were seeking, you know, to be what you were supposed to be.
[00:15:44] Ideally.
[00:15:46] Um, do you think that a lot of people suffer from that?
[00:15:48] And that is the reason why a lot of relationships don't last is because of that.
[00:15:53] You know, they're trying to live up to something that they've been told to do versus what they really wanted it.
[00:16:00] Very much so.
[00:16:01] I, I think that that's a flaw in most of what doesn't feel good, certainly within relationship, but even like internally within ourselves is when we're following the expectation of the mission of somebody external to us.
[00:16:16] Right.
[00:16:16] They don't actually know.
[00:16:18] And, and like we, and I think where it really becomes uncomfortable or where it, for me, I'll speak from my own experience.
[00:16:25] It feels uncomfortable to try to live a life that's not mine, try to live up to expectations that aren't my own.
[00:16:33] I recognize that, you know, um, monogamy is fake.
[00:16:41] Um, and it didn't align with me and it just, it's like sets you up to fail because it like, it creates this dynamic where like this person is my everything.
[00:16:52] She has to give me everything that I need.
[00:16:56] That's so unfair to her.
[00:16:58] Like what if she, she's not good at basketball and I really need a hoop, somebody to hoop with.
[00:17:05] Like, you know, and, and, and there's things like this that are just like set up in this paradigm that just don't work.
[00:17:14] Right.
[00:17:15] And when you allow yourself to also recognize that, you know, you, you brought up adultery or cheating, right?
[00:17:24] That happens whether you're in a monogamous.
[00:17:26] Right.
[00:17:27] Or polyamorous situation.
[00:17:29] We are autonomous beings.
[00:17:31] What we all really want is just like the freedom to be ourselves.
[00:17:35] Right.
[00:17:36] Our whole selves without having to like shave off parts to like fit into this box or this expectation.
[00:17:42] But like just to be safe being ourselves.
[00:17:46] Right.
[00:17:47] So like, I don't know when I, when you, I don't know where I was going with that.
[00:17:54] When you can start to embrace though, that, that authenticity about what it is that you really want and need, um, in a relationship, you realize that it's a commitment that is happening every day.
[00:18:10] Like it's a choice that you're making every day.
[00:18:12] Right.
[00:18:12] To stay in this relationship or to leave.
[00:18:14] And it's, and we fall back on monogamy or the rules of marriage, the constructs of these structures that like hold people in.
[00:18:22] They still jump out.
[00:18:23] Right.
[00:18:23] I'm not jumping out.
[00:18:25] Like, and like there's freedom in knowing that if I, or she experiences a connection that feels like really meaningful and like happy making for her, that we're supporting each other in like experiencing more happiness and love.
[00:18:43] Like that is love.
[00:18:43] Right.
[00:18:44] And so it just, I don't know.
[00:18:46] I, I, I, when you can bring critical consciousness to the decisions that you make, the way that you structure your life and make sure that it like resonates with you.
[00:18:57] That's, that's what's changed the game for me.
[00:19:01] So, and that, I think, um, not only with relationships, but just your life in general.
[00:19:09] Yes.
[00:19:10] Um, when you try to fit into a mold that, you know, deep down, it doesn't feel good.
[00:19:18] Yeah.
[00:19:19] That's just, that's not a good feeling.
[00:19:21] And so, um, like relationships, your career, like you said, we grew up in a time where, um, you go to high school, you go to college.
[00:19:32] And it's funny because my parents that was, you know, drilled into me, but my parents did not go to college, but for them, that was what was going to give me, um, the edge.
[00:19:45] Right.
[00:19:45] That they didn't have.
[00:19:47] Um, so I went to school as far as, uh, right.
[00:19:51] A relationship.
[00:19:52] I wanted to be married.
[00:19:54] Um, I wanted to find that, that person.
[00:19:57] Um, I didn't necessarily know what that looked like because I didn't see it, but, um, that was, and then with kids, I think that I was more focused on relationship.
[00:20:10] And then you have kids, you get married, you have kids.
[00:20:14] It was a given, um, but right.
[00:20:18] Right.
[00:20:19] Right.
[00:20:19] So there's expectations.
[00:20:21] And I think that it's very important to think where those things come from.
[00:20:25] And if I really align with those things.
[00:20:28] Right.
[00:20:29] I mean, do y'all have your parents being like, as soon as you got married, how, when am I going to have them grandkids?
[00:20:33] You know, it's like.
[00:20:35] So, you don't remember what it's like to be a parent.
[00:20:38] You trying to do that to me?
[00:20:39] Oh, yeah.
[00:20:40] We did the opposite.
[00:20:41] We were, we were pregnant.
[00:20:43] And so it was, when are you getting married?
[00:20:45] There you go.
[00:20:46] Yeah.
[00:20:46] So, even if.
[00:20:48] Same expectations, you know.
[00:20:49] Right.
[00:20:50] Right.
[00:20:50] So, we had to, you know, away from our parents.
[00:20:54] We were so young.
[00:20:55] But away from our parents, we had to talk and figure out what we were going to do.
[00:21:00] If we're going to co-parent.
[00:21:01] If we're going to be together.
[00:21:03] If we're going to get married.
[00:21:04] Because in the end, it's me, you, and this child.
[00:21:08] And the other people, you know, we'll have to block them out.
[00:21:12] Yeah.
[00:21:14] So, you're, the first time that you, you two were dating.
[00:21:19] You said for a year.
[00:21:21] And then you were away for seven years.
[00:21:24] Yeah.
[00:21:24] So, what happened in that year that you decided to split?
[00:21:29] And then what happened to help reunite you after seven years?
[00:21:34] Mm-hmm.
[00:21:35] Well, so, during that one year, we were pretty on again, off again.
[00:21:40] Our solution to all of the conflict and challenges and pain and, like, mismatch that we were experiencing was usually to break up.
[00:21:50] Mm-hmm.
[00:21:50] And Cal was very adamant at the time that he didn't, he didn't want to be in anything committed anyways, which made me crazy.
[00:21:59] No.
[00:22:00] Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:22:01] It did.
[00:22:02] We went into the relationship.
[00:22:05] Oh, yes.
[00:22:05] You know that that's what I said at the beginning.
[00:22:07] Agreed.
[00:22:07] And you know that I changed my mind as soon as I fell in love with you.
[00:22:10] Yeah.
[00:22:11] I'm okay.
[00:22:11] I love, bro.
[00:22:12] Yeah.
[00:22:13] Yeah.
[00:22:14] I feel you, bro.
[00:22:14] It's always our fault, man.
[00:22:17] Look, I'm trying to explain it.
[00:22:19] Just keep on going.
[00:22:20] Yeah.
[00:22:20] I was just going to, I was just, you know.
[00:22:22] Yeah.
[00:22:22] There's some caveats to this story.
[00:22:24] Oh, there's caveats.
[00:22:25] Of course, our stories are different.
[00:22:26] It's all nuanced.
[00:22:27] Same experience, totally different stories.
[00:22:29] Yes.
[00:22:30] Call me later, we'll talk about it.
[00:22:31] Yeah.
[00:22:34] But so anyway, so like during this time in one of the breakup periods, I had met and started
[00:22:46] dating another person.
[00:22:51] And, and she like knew that she wanted to be with me.
[00:22:56] And, and I wasn't sure if I wanted to be with her because I'm still in love with Calvin.
[00:23:02] And so like that started and then it stopped.
[00:23:06] I broke up with her, tried to, to be with Cal again, still hitting the same struggles.
[00:23:12] We broke up again.
[00:23:13] And then I hit a point where I was like, fine, screw it.
[00:23:16] I'm just going to date.
[00:23:18] I'm just going to date this other person.
[00:23:18] Cause I know she actually wants to be with me.
[00:23:21] Um, and it was around that time that Cal had met his former wife too, and they were dating.
[00:23:29] And so, um, as I got more serious with my girlfriend who later became my wife, Cal got more serious
[00:23:37] with hit with this woman who later became his wife.
[00:23:40] And while we attempted at first to maintain a friendship, um, I think that the connection
[00:23:45] that Cal and I had was really threatening to both of our partners.
[00:23:50] And so, um, to kind of assuage those relationships, we let our friendship drift.
[00:24:00] Seven years later, um, Cal, like we kept in touch.
[00:24:05] We maybe texted each other once or twice a year.
[00:24:07] Yeah.
[00:24:07] Usually on like birthdays, basically birthdays.
[00:24:11] Yeah.
[00:24:12] Maybe holidays, but, um, yeah, at one point, Cal reached out to me cause to share something
[00:24:22] I popped into his head.
[00:24:25] Um, and I, I was in the midst at that time of, um, like the transition of identifying as
[00:24:35] polyamorous and sharing that with my wife, who was at the time, my fiance, and we were like
[00:24:40] working through what that meant and how that could look in our relationship and how she felt
[00:24:45] about it.
[00:24:46] And there was a lot of, it was very present, right.
[00:24:50] As any major transition tends to be in a couple's relationship.
[00:24:53] And so I shared that with Cal because that was like the big update in my life.
[00:24:58] Um, and his response was essentially, Oh, like, I actually think that I identify as polyamorous too.
[00:25:06] I totally had.
[00:25:07] And I think it was like one of those expectation things.
[00:25:10] Yeah.
[00:25:10] That you weren't allowed to.
[00:25:12] Right.
[00:25:12] You're not supposed to.
[00:25:14] Right.
[00:25:14] And like when I was dating you and her, I was dating other people.
[00:25:20] It was very open about it.
[00:25:22] Like.
[00:25:23] Yeah.
[00:25:23] I didn't know the term polyamory until she laid it on me.
[00:25:27] And I was like, Google.
[00:25:29] Oh, that's what that is.
[00:25:32] Yeah.
[00:25:33] That's totally me.
[00:25:34] I need to come up about this as well, because we had just had a baby and like, I was coming
[00:25:41] into a whole lot of truth.
[00:25:42] I was really stepping into like not living my life based on other people's expectations
[00:25:47] and like owning how it was that I wanted to live because I had lots of examples happening
[00:25:53] in my sphere of influence that really made that a priority.
[00:26:00] I was surrounded by people who were dying young, not living up to their true potential, not
[00:26:06] living at all.
[00:26:08] And that's not how I wanted to be.
[00:26:11] Right.
[00:26:11] And so I had to have this conversation with someone who definitely didn't want to hear
[00:26:17] that.
[00:26:17] Mm hmm.
[00:26:18] Um, but like I knew it was important for me to like.
[00:26:25] Share myself like who I know my actual self to be with this person and have her choose if
[00:26:32] there's a thing she wants to continue to do or not.
[00:26:35] Right.
[00:26:35] Right.
[00:26:36] And so especially before we grew our family.
[00:26:38] And so, um, yeah, it was that transition is a hard one.
[00:26:44] Um, and you know, it goes against a lot of norms, a lot of expectations, a lot of, you
[00:26:52] know, old promises and agreements.
[00:26:54] There's up a lot of insecurities.
[00:26:58] You know, it doesn't.
[00:27:00] To me, I think it's the just a high form of maturity to understand that, um, it's okay
[00:27:10] to, it's natural to have feelings, other people.
[00:27:16] And there's a level of security there when you're open to allowing some or when you're
[00:27:24] open to having someone explore that connection with someone else.
[00:27:29] Right.
[00:27:30] Um, so do you think that the first time when you dated, do you think that there was growth
[00:27:37] and maturity that needed to take place?
[00:27:40] And that's what those seven years were about.
[00:27:42] Yep.
[00:27:44] Um, a hundred percent.
[00:27:45] Yes.
[00:27:46] And they, they still weren't enough.
[00:27:49] No, I need like another 10.
[00:27:53] I get it.
[00:27:54] Okay.
[00:27:55] Fine.
[00:27:55] Yeah.
[00:27:55] So, you know, like, and it's so ironic, right?
[00:27:59] Because in those seven years, I had, I had completed a master's degree in couple and
[00:28:03] family therapy.
[00:28:04] I had completed a PhD in couple and family therapy.
[00:28:07] I was in practice supporting other couples and individuals with their relationships.
[00:28:12] And so I had done a lot of growing and learning and, you know, being in a polyamorous marriage
[00:28:18] now, like figuring that out.
[00:28:20] So you would think that like, I would be grown and mature enough to do our relationship differently.
[00:28:28] And certainly it laid foundations that needed to be there.
[00:28:31] And when I got back into relationship with Cal, the dynamic between us was actually worse
[00:28:39] than it was the first time.
[00:28:40] Because there were so many other layers in our adultness, in our lives, like kids, like
[00:28:48] other relationships.
[00:28:49] Like living on opposite sides of the country.
[00:28:52] Yep.
[00:28:52] And, um, so, and, and I didn't know at that time how to navigate that.
[00:29:01] And, and the funny thing is, you know, one of, one of the things that we understand and
[00:29:05] believe about relationships is that they are divinely designed to support us in the growth
[00:29:13] that each of us need to do on like a soul level.
[00:29:17] Right.
[00:29:18] Right.
[00:29:18] And so I'd done a lot of growing, Cal had done a lot of growing, but there were still like
[00:29:23] gifts that we had for one another, um, on a, you know, on a, on this soul connection
[00:29:30] that we shared that we needed to experience and lean into in order to become who we needed
[00:29:38] to be.
[00:29:39] And, and that is why, like, I think that Cal has probably been a bigger source of learning
[00:29:48] and growth for me in my relational awareness and skills and supporting other people than
[00:29:54] my education has, because this is where it got applied and, and, and, and battle tested.
[00:30:01] Right.
[00:30:01] Some of that stuff doesn't work.
[00:30:04] And some of the, some of the stuff we had to learn, I didn't get taught in school.
[00:30:08] No, we created in a way.
[00:30:11] Yeah.
[00:30:12] So it's, it's a both and right.
[00:30:15] Like we needed that time and space to grow.
[00:30:17] And then also we needed, needed more time and space to grow, to be, to be together and
[00:30:23] to allow ourselves to go through that growth journey and not just quit because it was hard.
[00:30:28] Yeah.
[00:30:29] The resilience, the stubbornness, the commitment really.
[00:30:33] Right.
[00:30:33] You know, that, that's, that's the one thing.
[00:30:36] That's the one huge difference in the thing that I just really appreciate about her.
[00:30:39] The stubbornness.
[00:30:40] And myself.
[00:30:42] Well, no, yeah, I do.
[00:30:44] But what I was going to say was our just like relentless dedication to being better people.
[00:30:52] Like we're just, we're like so committed to always learning how we can be better and doing
[00:30:59] better and, and like not feeling ashamed of or not.
[00:31:03] Right.
[00:31:04] It's just like an opportunity to keep growing.
[00:31:06] And, and I wasn't married to somebody who was committed to that, who was accountable to
[00:31:12] that, who, you know, was open to that.
[00:31:17] And so it's just, I think that that's the thing I really love about myself and the thing
[00:31:22] I love about her.
[00:31:23] And it's been a game changer in our relationship and got us through what was hard because like
[00:31:28] we just had to keep getting better and trying to figure this thing out.
[00:31:32] And we eventually did and then found a way to make it easy to teach other people.
[00:31:38] Right.
[00:31:38] So it's cool.
[00:31:39] And the fact that you guys kind of, in many ways, you came to that revelation together,
[00:31:50] you know, you can do it separate, you know, and that in itself says a lot about, I think
[00:31:57] that made the connection stronger.
[00:31:59] You know what I'm saying?
[00:32:00] Like, Hey, you, you just describing what I feel and you're there.
[00:32:07] I'm here.
[00:32:08] I can't talk to her.
[00:32:10] You can't talk to her.
[00:32:12] We can talk to each other.
[00:32:13] And I think that's what helped guide you, you know, made the conversation more easier,
[00:32:19] made the relationship better, even though you still had some, you know, struggles to go
[00:32:25] through, but it made the fight worth it because you're just like, Hey, you know, you still
[00:32:30] get it.
[00:32:30] Mm-hmm.
[00:32:31] So you mentioned, um, children and, and we have been on your podcast before.
[00:32:40] And so we know that you have a blended family.
[00:32:43] Um, so if you could tell us a little bit about what day-to-day life looks like and how you
[00:32:50] are able to have all these, these big revelations and things while still going through the motion
[00:32:57] of the day-to-day life.
[00:32:59] Hmm.
[00:33:01] Yeah.
[00:33:01] Yeah.
[00:33:01] I think it, it comes back to Cal's, what Cal was just saying about our, our relentless
[00:33:09] commitment to always growing and being better.
[00:33:12] Right.
[00:33:13] Relationships are relationships, our relationships, our relationships, and we have relationships
[00:33:16] with each of our children too.
[00:33:18] And so all the things that we are practicing in our relationship, we're practicing in our
[00:33:24] relationship with our kids and our kids are great teachers for relationships because they
[00:33:31] challenge us in a whole other different way.
[00:33:33] Right.
[00:33:34] And so it's this, this commitment to like on the, on the daily recognizing that the challenges
[00:33:42] that we experience are gifts, resources, and opportunities.
[00:33:45] There's always an opportunity to learn.
[00:33:48] There's always an opportunity to grow.
[00:33:50] We're not going to get it right or perfect all the time, or even most of the time.
[00:33:54] And we know that and have grace for ourselves in that so that when we do, um, recognize that
[00:34:02] we didn't show up as, as lovingly or as powerfully with our kids or with one another, or even just
[00:34:09] with ourselves, we have that awareness and we know what then to do with it.
[00:34:13] And it, and we can come back to like, okay, how do I do better next time?
[00:34:18] What does that actually look like?
[00:34:20] The other thing I'll say is that, um, we prioritize the connection in our relationship,
[00:34:27] despite the kids over the kids, right?
[00:34:30] Some days it's like, you know, we're tired.
[00:34:33] We need to go watch a TV show by ourselves.
[00:34:35] You guys get yourselves ready for bed.
[00:34:37] Don't bother us for the next hour.
[00:34:39] Right.
[00:34:39] Like, um, thank God they're old enough to do that.
[00:34:43] Yeah.
[00:34:44] So it's been a stretch, you know?
[00:34:46] Yeah.
[00:34:47] They're getting there.
[00:34:48] They're 10, 8, 8, and 6 right now.
[00:34:51] So they're still pretty young.
[00:34:52] Some self-sufficiency here.
[00:34:53] So it's cool.
[00:34:54] It's getting easier.
[00:34:55] And we knew that we knew that like it would keep getting easier.
[00:34:58] So a lot of, in the beginning, it was like this hang in there.
[00:35:01] It's going to get easier.
[00:35:02] But we look for the times.
[00:35:04] We look for the places where we can give to ourselves, give to each other.
[00:35:08] We pause to hug one another or kiss one another in a meaningful way throughout the day.
[00:35:16] We take like 10 minutes.
[00:35:19] Sometimes I'll just like pull Cal away and just like pull him in bed with me and just cuddle into him to just like reset, recharge 10 more minutes before we go back into the day-to-day of life.
[00:35:31] And we, you know, we are on one another's team in doing life, right?
[00:35:40] In parenting, we're backing one another.
[00:35:43] In chores, we're supporting one another.
[00:35:45] We're not on one another's case about what, when we make mistakes or when things aren't done the way that we want them to because we know that like this is my teammate.
[00:35:56] Yeah.
[00:35:57] And we're operating under the assumption that everyone's doing the best they can do.
[00:36:01] Right.
[00:36:02] And so there's lots of greats.
[00:36:03] Like, oh, you didn't remember to run the dishwasher last night?
[00:36:06] No big deal.
[00:36:08] No big deal, right?
[00:36:09] Move on.
[00:36:10] This didn't get done or like this morning, I had given an answer to one of our kids that was the opposite answer Cal had given.
[00:36:20] I said yes.
[00:36:21] She played us.
[00:36:22] He said no, right?
[00:36:23] Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:24] And, and, and, and I like, I was like, no, like, that was my mistake should have checked in with your dad.
[00:36:33] I back your dad.
[00:36:34] Right.
[00:36:35] Like, and even, even though I, if it were my choice independently, I maybe would have made the choice that I suggested making.
[00:36:42] But like, no, he said this, so I'm going to back that.
[00:36:46] And there's, and so our kids get to see that course correction.
[00:36:49] Right.
[00:36:50] And that repair and that team, that teamwork.
[00:36:54] And that just makes, like, when you know you've got a partner in all the things, who has your back, who's on your side, who's not like on you about how you're not doing enough.
[00:37:04] Or undermining it right.
[00:37:06] Yeah.
[00:37:06] It just, it makes all of the stresses of everything else so much easier to bear and move through.
[00:37:13] Yes.
[00:37:14] Yes.
[00:37:14] The way I was going to answer your question, though.
[00:37:17] Because you're like, what is it like?
[00:37:19] My brain, what popped in my brain is chaos.
[00:37:22] Right.
[00:37:23] Straight chaos.
[00:37:24] What do you mean?
[00:37:26] Right.
[00:37:26] And especially at those ages, I remember you saying, being played against each other.
[00:37:35] I'm, I am, I'm more, my fuse is shorter.
[00:37:41] I'm more firm.
[00:37:42] And it got to a point where they would, they'd walk in a room and go, mom, can I, nevermind.
[00:37:48] And then I hear, can I, can I, can I tell them, go.
[00:37:53] But my answer is always no.
[00:37:56] And then I might think about it and go, okay, you can't even.
[00:37:59] They know they're going to get an instant no.
[00:38:01] And I did know what your mama say.
[00:38:04] Yep.
[00:38:05] Yeah.
[00:38:06] Ask her friends, you know.
[00:38:07] But that, that chaos of life, it's, it's like when you're in it, it's like, my gosh, it seems like it's going to be forever.
[00:38:16] Yep.
[00:38:16] You blink.
[00:38:18] And.
[00:38:19] Yeah.
[00:38:19] We, we blinked and we have kids driving.
[00:38:22] And, you know.
[00:38:24] Yeah.
[00:38:24] Wild.
[00:38:25] So it's crazy how that, how it feels when you're in it.
[00:38:29] And chaos is the perfect word.
[00:38:31] Yeah.
[00:38:31] It is.
[00:38:32] I used to say organized chaos, but it wasn't even organized.
[00:38:36] We tried.
[00:38:38] Tag team and do what needs to be done.
[00:38:40] And that's the thing about any, any relationship.
[00:38:44] Survival, right.
[00:38:45] Any relationship, it's all about just getting through the damn day at the end of the day.
[00:38:51] You know what I'm saying?
[00:38:52] Like people paint it out to be this, you know, what you got to do is and you got to make time for this and you got to have date night.
[00:38:58] You got to do this night.
[00:38:59] You got to, man, just get through the damn day and get through the day together.
[00:39:03] Right.
[00:39:04] And, and take those moments to recharge and seated.
[00:39:08] Recharge, reset, you know, make sure you can stay in tune with each other.
[00:39:13] You know, one of the things we constantly do is we message each other throughout the day.
[00:39:17] You know, how you doing?
[00:39:19] We greet each other, we kiss, we get home from work.
[00:39:23] We're touching each other.
[00:39:24] We're holding on to each other.
[00:39:26] We're doing, those are things that, you know, it's, it's, it's hard for me to understand when I hear people say, you know, well, once the kids got grown, we just grew apart.
[00:39:38] How do you grow apart?
[00:39:40] Grow apart by not staying connected.
[00:39:42] But I like what you said about, you know, you're, you two are more important than the kids.
[00:39:47] And that's, that's what's going to carry me throughout because they're going to be gone one day.
[00:39:51] Right.
[00:39:51] Yep.
[00:39:52] Go and take their own.
[00:39:53] Take their own life.
[00:39:54] Right.
[00:39:54] You know, you have to be there to be, be for each other.
[00:39:57] So that's fantastic.
[00:39:58] Right.
[00:39:59] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:00] So one of, one of the things that we focus on is our friendship and making sure that we like each other.
[00:40:08] So how do you maintain a friendship and maintain like with each other?
[00:40:14] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:16] Do you want to answer that first?
[00:40:18] Yeah.
[00:40:19] I'm trying to think.
[00:40:20] I mean, we have a, quite a few things in common.
[00:40:26] Um, we, when I think of like the big likes, it's adventure.
[00:40:31] So traveling, um, it's definitely one way.
[00:40:36] Uh, but I don't know.
[00:40:37] You can find adventure on a trail, uh, go into a new grocery store.
[00:40:44] Right.
[00:40:45] A new restaurant.
[00:40:46] Like it doesn't have to be fancy.
[00:40:48] Right.
[00:40:49] Yeah.
[00:40:49] Like to have novel experiences as often as we can find time to do it.
[00:40:57] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:57] Right.
[00:40:58] And resources.
[00:40:59] Right.
[00:41:02] My answer to this question is actually mindset.
[00:41:07] I've, I've made the decision to like him.
[00:41:11] Mm-hmm.
[00:41:11] Right.
[00:41:12] And I practice thinking thoughts about how and why I like him.
[00:41:17] Yeah.
[00:41:18] Yeah.
[00:41:18] Because there are parts of me sometimes that don't want to like him very much, that don't
[00:41:23] like him very much.
[00:41:24] Yeah.
[00:41:25] That's real and normal relationships.
[00:41:26] That's true.
[00:41:27] We need to normalize that.
[00:41:28] Right.
[00:41:30] Um, and they can exist.
[00:41:32] They get to exist.
[00:41:33] They're my self-protective parts.
[00:41:34] They're, they're my defensive parts.
[00:41:38] And they care about me.
[00:41:40] Um, and it doesn't serve me to look at this person I love so much and see him as someone
[00:41:46] I don't like.
[00:41:47] Right.
[00:41:47] In the beginning when our relationship was, was still really struggling, I played a game
[00:41:52] with myself actually that where every time I caught myself thinking something negative
[00:41:56] about Cal, like complaining about him or feeling dissatisfied with him, I'd force myself to
[00:42:01] like stare at him if he was there and, and like see him really see him and remember like
[00:42:10] at least three things that I appreciate and love about him.
[00:42:14] And he would catch me like looking at him a lot.
[00:42:16] I didn't tell him until much later that this is what was going on in my head.
[00:42:20] No, you can feel people staring at you.
[00:42:22] Right.
[00:42:23] You're like, I just love you.
[00:42:26] And inside my parts are like, I'm really frustrated with you right now.
[00:42:30] And I'm, what I'm saying is I just love you, you know, cause it's, it's like what you focus
[00:42:38] on becomes your experience.
[00:42:40] Right.
[00:42:41] Absolutely.
[00:42:41] And, and when you partner with somebody, there's reasons that you partner.
[00:42:46] You, there's lots of things you like and love and appreciate and admire and respect about
[00:42:50] them.
[00:42:51] And then when a lot of couples go through relationship, like challenges and the chaos of
[00:42:57] life, we start to focus more on those parts that we don't like the things that they didn't
[00:43:01] do, the things we wish were different, the things that frustrated us or that weren't how we expected
[00:43:07] them to be.
[00:43:09] Cause again, expectations, not just about who we need to be, but who our partner needs to be
[00:43:13] and who they need to be for us.
[00:43:15] Right.
[00:43:15] All of that then creates this, this kind of skewed pile of evidence that paints the picture
[00:43:22] of our partner as someone that we don't like as much.
[00:43:25] That's how people fall out of love.
[00:43:26] Absolutely.
[00:43:28] So I've, I've committed, we've committed to like staying in love.
[00:43:32] Like, I know I'm never going to want to leave you.
[00:43:34] I know I'm never going to fall out of love for you.
[00:43:36] How do you know that that's never going to happen?
[00:43:38] Because I know I create my reality.
[00:43:40] I know I can choose that.
[00:43:42] And I have chosen that I have decided and committed.
[00:43:46] So whenever I find myself not feeling in love with you, I'm course correcting.
[00:43:51] Right.
[00:43:51] Whenever I find myself like not feeling like I don't like you very much, or I'm not connected.
[00:43:55] I'm like, how do I get back into liking you?
[00:43:58] How do I get back into connection?
[00:43:59] What do we need?
[00:44:00] What do I need to shift within myself around what I'm paying attention to?
[00:44:03] It's often that.
[00:44:04] And what my energy is so that I can feel like the way that I want to feel.
[00:44:11] And the more that I like practice that and intend that, the easier it is.
[00:44:17] You just build this momentum.
[00:44:18] And now it's like.
[00:44:20] A new norm.
[00:44:21] A new default.
[00:44:22] Yeah.
[00:44:22] It's, it's, it's just, I just adore this, this human so freaking much.
[00:44:28] I can't imagine not until, until we get into a fight and then that part shows up.
[00:44:32] And I'm like.
[00:44:35] Right.
[00:44:35] All over again.
[00:44:37] What was it?
[00:44:38] I know sometimes, now Kevin, you didn't realize when she was staring at you, she was like,
[00:44:43] I love him, but I'm going to bust him upside the head with his brick.
[00:44:48] I can just strangle you right now.
[00:44:50] I'm going to focus on the love part.
[00:44:52] I'm going to focus on the love part.
[00:44:53] So you didn't get the bricks, so you're good.
[00:44:56] How has starting a business together and working together affected everything?
[00:45:03] Is it, because that's, that's one of the things I tell him is, you know, when we are in the
[00:45:09] position to be fully self-employed and we're working together and we live together, I said,
[00:45:15] you're going to have to build in days to get breaks from me.
[00:45:19] How has it been being together for work and for home?
[00:45:25] Mm-hmm.
[00:45:26] Awesome.
[00:45:27] I think, honestly, we could spend more time together.
[00:45:33] It's that, like, it, for me, it's a bonus that when we get opportunities like this to work
[00:45:39] together, it's been a really new area of growth for us as, like, individuals and as a couple,
[00:45:52] right?
[00:45:52] Because, like, we are in business together and in relationship together and entangled,
[00:45:58] right?
[00:45:59] Mm-hmm.
[00:45:59] And so it's, like, required even more leveling up, more attention around how we're communicating
[00:46:07] with each other, how we're giving each other grace, how we're, like, collaborating as a team.
[00:46:14] Um, but yeah, like, I was, I had a part of me that was concerned that joining forces and
[00:46:22] doing this together and working from home, like, and being together all the time, um, could
[00:46:30] potentially be a problem.
[00:46:31] But I honestly feel like we don't spend enough time together.
[00:46:35] Like, we totally could spend more time together and not tight.
[00:46:39] I think it would actually be better if we spent more time not doing work things.
[00:46:43] Mm-hmm.
[00:46:43] Um, because, like, we love our work.
[00:46:46] We love our clients.
[00:46:47] We love, we're just, like, so excited that, like, we are rare every other weekend, kid-free.
[00:46:54] We spend working.
[00:46:55] Because we just, we love what we do.
[00:46:57] Right.
[00:46:58] I mean, I've, I have been more conscious of, we're not going to talk about any of this
[00:47:05] stuff.
[00:47:05] We're going to do something.
[00:47:07] Um, I've also started, at one point, everything we did, I had the phone and I'm taking pictures
[00:47:13] and videos and I've started to, um, be more mindful of that because there needs to be downtime
[00:47:19] also.
[00:47:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:47:21] Yeah.
[00:47:22] I know.
[00:47:23] I'll add that, um, you know, on, on the, the flip side of how awesome it's been, it
[00:47:31] definitely has required growth and, and growth doesn't happen through, like, ease and comfort.
[00:47:40] It happens from challenge and discomfort.
[00:47:42] Stuff you get wrong.
[00:47:43] And, um, you know, a lot, I think of the growth, the most growth that I've done has been around
[00:47:52] allowing for how Cal and I are different in how we show up in business, how we, um, like
[00:48:01] what productivity looks like for us, how visible each of us are, how, um, you know, like how
[00:48:09] focused we are, the timelines we work from, because I am, I am like Virgo, you know, Virgo,
[00:48:16] high achieving type A go-getter, never stop.
[00:48:19] Yep.
[00:48:20] Maledictorian in every level of education.
[00:48:23] Human design generator.
[00:48:25] All the boxes.
[00:48:26] I'm like, I'm like a 92, 93, you know?
[00:48:30] Like, I don't know.
[00:48:31] But yeah, but you're also really chill.
[00:48:33] Very chill.
[00:48:34] And your ADHD brain works very differently than mine.
[00:48:38] Yeah.
[00:48:38] And.
[00:48:40] Ours works differently.
[00:48:42] And so I completely get it.
[00:48:45] Um, neither of us are the type A box checking.
[00:48:49] Neither of us are that bad, but there are times when I tell him we've got to go somewhere
[00:48:54] else and work because if we're home, I'm not going to be able to focus on work.
[00:48:59] Um, so if we're going to work, we've got to go to Starbucks or to a coffee shop or to
[00:49:04] the library.
[00:49:06] I don't have the distraction.
[00:49:08] And with him, um, I don't know.
[00:49:11] I think his distractions come along with him.
[00:49:14] So he's fine wherever.
[00:49:15] If he's going to be focused, he's going to be focused.
[00:49:18] If he's going to be distracted, he's going to be distracted.
[00:49:21] So, um, the first time I said something about, we've got to go somewhere so I can work.
[00:49:26] He's looked at me.
[00:49:27] We can work here.
[00:49:28] I didn't get it.
[00:49:30] Uh, it was like, I started thinking like, well, you know, when you went to school, you
[00:49:36] went there to learn, you know what I'm saying?
[00:49:38] So when we're working, we're going to work so that I can have to correlate things in my
[00:49:44] head.
[00:49:45] So I can say, okay, well, so we're going to Starbucks.
[00:49:47] We're going to work.
[00:49:48] Ain't got time to play no game.
[00:49:51] Where is it?
[00:49:52] Where's it home?
[00:49:53] Yeah.
[00:49:53] We're at home, you know, I'm about to be doing something.
[00:49:55] I done broke off into my little game on my iPad, you know?
[00:49:59] But, you know, I like what you're saying about, Calvin, about grace.
[00:50:04] And I think that that's what's missing in a lot of relationships in today's time, you
[00:50:11] know?
[00:50:11] Yeah.
[00:50:12] People don't want to give grace to grow.
[00:50:16] Mm-hmm.
[00:50:17] So it's like, you know, people are breaking up because of smallest things nowadays.
[00:50:24] It's like, well, you know, it's not fair to think that you're going to meet that one
[00:50:30] person.
[00:50:32] They're going to have every single thing that you need or describe in that person.
[00:50:37] They're going to be 100% there.
[00:50:40] And if they miss just a little bit of mark, oh, you got to go.
[00:50:44] That's the advice that they're giving, you know, to people.
[00:50:49] They think they just messed up.
[00:50:51] So grace needs to be given.
[00:50:54] And I like that you stand on that, you know what I mean?
[00:50:58] Mm-hmm.
[00:51:00] Yeah.
[00:51:01] Thank you.
[00:51:05] You think you're good?
[00:51:06] Well, actually, should I?
[00:51:09] I'm going to shut this thing over.
[00:51:10] Let me edit this part.
[00:51:11] I don't know if you guys can hear, but there's a weed whacker or leaf blower or something going
[00:51:18] on outside our window all of a sudden.
[00:51:21] It got very loud.
[00:51:24] Sorry.
[00:51:26] Okay.
[00:51:28] Yes, sir.
[00:51:29] One of the interesting things that I wanted to ask was for our listeners that, you know,
[00:51:35] you guys stated that you were both poly and you said that you guys were committed to each
[00:51:42] other.
[00:51:43] So for those of our listeners who doesn't understand poly and what that means, what does poly mean
[00:51:49] for you guys and you guys' relationship?
[00:51:53] Yeah.
[00:51:54] Great question.
[00:51:55] So for me, being polyamorous is a recognition that I have the ability and desire and it's more
[00:52:08] authentic for me to love and be in relationship with more than one person at a time.
[00:52:15] That can look lots of different ways.
[00:52:17] Um, and, and, and for me in the relationship with Cal, it means that the doors open for those
[00:52:30] relationships to come into my life, though I'm not actively right now seeking those relationships
[00:52:36] because frankly, I am, I am what they call poly saturated with four children and a business,
[00:52:44] right?
[00:52:44] Like I've got plenty of other relationships I'm working on right now.
[00:52:48] Um, I don't have the energy and capacity because while love might be infinite time,
[00:52:55] energy and capacity are not right.
[00:52:59] Right.
[00:52:59] And so I don't want, like as Cal said, we still feels like we don't get enough time together
[00:53:05] already.
[00:53:05] If I were to bring in another relationship, especially in early stages, it would take a
[00:53:11] lot of time and energy.
[00:53:12] And my kids need that.
[00:53:13] Yeah.
[00:53:13] My business needs that.
[00:53:14] Cal needs that.
[00:53:15] And I need that from him.
[00:53:16] So we've been very conscious, um, about like making that decision to, um, essentially
[00:53:29] practice monogamy in this like season of our life and relationship.
[00:53:35] Yeah.
[00:53:36] Yeah.
[00:53:36] It's intentional.
[00:53:36] It's intentional.
[00:53:37] It's intentional monogamy.
[00:53:38] Yeah.
[00:53:39] Um, with polyamorous identities.
[00:53:41] Yeah.
[00:53:42] And for me, the way I define polyamory, it's kind of similar to you, but I guess what my,
[00:53:49] the facet that I look at it through is really like the autonomy and freedom where, um, you know,
[00:53:56] I have the ability to be supported and loved in me following my heart and like, um, allowing
[00:54:05] myself to just like live and experience other people, potentially other relationships if
[00:54:13] they present themselves to me and not have to like close off a part of myself, um, because
[00:54:20] of it.
[00:54:21] Right.
[00:54:21] And I think just the knowing and the freedom and the support is really all anyone wants,
[00:54:28] right?
[00:54:29] Like, um, because it allows just a really pure love to shine through and to exist between
[00:54:37] the two of us.
[00:54:38] Right.
[00:54:38] Like, like I said earlier, it, I choose this relationship.
[00:54:42] We both intentionally choose this relationship every single day, every moment that we decide
[00:54:48] to be in it and, um, we don't need a, a box of monogamy or a box of legal marriage or whatever
[00:54:56] to, um, define or protect.
[00:55:00] Keep us in that relationship.
[00:55:02] Yeah.
[00:55:03] Right.
[00:55:03] It is our just sovereign choice because I love her because I enjoy her because I want to
[00:55:11] continue to build my life in this business with her.
[00:55:13] Um, and like, I just, I see that with her, um, that's, and I want her to choose me for
[00:55:20] the same reason, not because of the paperwork or because of the commitment that she made all
[00:55:25] those years ago.
[00:55:26] Like I want it to be a constant reevaluation commitment.
[00:55:30] Like this is worth it.
[00:55:31] You're worth it.
[00:55:32] I'm going to keep showing you that I'm worth it because I'm going to step up.
[00:55:35] So you don't ever have to make a different choice kind of thing.
[00:55:38] That's a vibe.
[00:55:40] I'll, I'll add to that too.
[00:55:42] Like the idea of freedom isn't about just being able to do whatever you want.
[00:55:46] No, because in, in ethical, like consensual non-monogamy, which is, which is what we advise
[00:55:58] anyone who wants to be or chooses to be, or identifies as polyamorous or non-monogamous.
[00:56:03] Um, like it, it's about recognizing our interconnectedness and making sovereign choices with consideration
[00:56:13] of what it means to love, what, what, you know, like who else is involved, right?
[00:56:20] Like, you know, so Cal's got, like, he knows that I would support him if he found another
[00:56:24] connection and wanted to follow his heart and build that connection.
[00:56:29] And there would be conversations about what that would look like and how his time and energy
[00:56:36] would be shared and what our family system needs.
[00:56:39] And like, so the dynamics of that would be negotiated in a way that feels loving.
[00:56:45] And of course he has the autonomy to agree to, to agreements, right?
[00:56:53] It's not me setting rules for him, but he, he, he gets to agree.
[00:56:56] But if he doesn't agree, then, then I know that I have the autonomy to make a different choice
[00:57:01] for myself.
[00:57:02] And it may be to make the choice not to be in the relationship, right?
[00:57:06] So it, it's, it's another, um, it has another layer of complexity, right?
[00:57:13] Because you're, we're not, we don't entirely subscribe to, to relationship anarchy, which
[00:57:19] is like throw all rules out the window and kind of, kind of do, do, do your thing.
[00:57:25] Everybody, um, everybody's cool on, on their own.
[00:57:28] Um, but you, we, you know, we're really, we're really all about conscious, intentional love
[00:57:37] and changing our paradigm around what that means because love is an act of, of will for
[00:57:47] the like benefit of someone else's growth or higher good, right?
[00:57:53] Like that's the best definition we've ever come from.
[00:57:55] That comes from M Scott Peck.
[00:57:57] Um, and it's like, it's teaches us that if we're going to love and, and whether it's one
[00:58:04] person or, or more than one person, that love looks like making conscious choices that extend
[00:58:11] ourselves for the highest good of all, right?
[00:58:17] Of ourselves and others.
[00:58:18] And, and to know what our, the highest good is for oneself, you have to recognize that your
[00:58:23] wellbeing, your highest good is always tied to the people that you're in relationship
[00:58:27] with.
[00:58:28] Yes.
[00:58:29] Always looking at like, and balancing the nuance and complexities of what those decisions look
[00:58:36] like.
[00:58:37] And that's not always easy and we don't always get it right, which is where grace and learning
[00:58:41] come in.
[00:58:42] Um, but it's the intention and the consciousness behind it that I think makes all the difference
[00:58:47] in whether or not an open relationship can be really successful and enriching.
[00:58:53] Right.
[00:58:54] And that's wonderful.
[00:58:55] Cause I think a lot of times, you know, when we're close and we're on our social media
[00:58:59] platforms, uh, the discussion comes up about poly and immediately it's always looked at in
[00:59:06] a negative light for the most part.
[00:59:08] Mm-hmm.
[00:59:09] Some people who, you know, are open to it and, you know, most people are like, well,
[00:59:13] I couldn't do that.
[00:59:15] Mm-hmm.
[00:59:15] We live in the Bible Belt.
[00:59:17] So, you know, a perception of everything has been different down here.
[00:59:21] Yeah.
[00:59:22] I believe it.
[00:59:22] Yeah.
[00:59:23] But, you know, just, you know, people realizing that there is a new world and there's a different
[00:59:28] world and, you know, having the same mindset you had 20 years ago, you're just stuck.
[00:59:34] You know what I mean?
[00:59:35] So, you know, being able to grow, being able to be free and that's just a wonderful thing.
[00:59:41] And even based on the answers that both of you gave, like I said, there's a level of respect
[00:59:47] and maturity that's there that a lot of people will not, um, that a lot of people won't be
[00:59:53] able to, to manage.
[00:59:56] So, um, that to me is the highest level of maturity because you're recognizing I can't
[01:00:03] be all, um, and I'm not going to prevent you from, from connecting with others.
[01:00:09] So it's going to be a joy.
[01:00:12] Freedom to know that you have that option is what draws you closer.
[01:00:18] And that doesn't make sense to a lot of people, but, you know, you have that option and that
[01:00:21] draws you closer and that makes you more intentional.
[01:00:24] And you know that you love her.
[01:00:26] I love her.
[01:00:27] You know, I can't see my life without her at ever, at any given time.
[01:00:33] So, you know, I'm going to be intentional about the things that I do and the things that
[01:00:38] I say and the way that I behave.
[01:00:40] And, you know, when people learn to grow in that, I think we can have some mature conversations
[01:00:45] in our future.
[01:00:47] But, you know, you guys are a perfect example of, you know, Hey, these things can work and
[01:00:52] they can work great, especially.
[01:00:54] And it's not a, and it's not a free for all.
[01:00:57] Yeah.
[01:01:00] It's really just like the evolution.
[01:01:02] Right.
[01:01:03] Right.
[01:01:03] Right.
[01:01:04] So you've mentioned your business.
[01:01:07] If you could tell our listeners about your business, what it is that you all do and how
[01:01:12] they can find out more information.
[01:01:14] Yeah, we'd love to.
[01:01:17] So our business is Powerful Love Relationships and we support partners in creating unshakable
[01:01:25] relationships that delight you in all the ways.
[01:01:30] We work with one member of the couple system.
[01:01:35] If that's the only person who's really motivated to do the work, because we know that it only
[01:01:39] takes one to create changes.
[01:01:40] That was how we got to where we were.
[01:01:43] It was how we first started.
[01:01:44] Me who stepped into my own growth first, because Cal wasn't in a place to do that.
[01:01:48] That too.
[01:01:49] Yeah.
[01:01:51] And or couples, because when both people are dedicated to their own personal growth and
[01:01:55] healing journeys, becoming masters of themselves and of relationships, like magic happens.
[01:02:02] It accelerates the journey and it's just so beautiful.
[01:02:06] Yeah.
[01:02:06] In that way too.
[01:02:09] So you can find more information about us by connecting with us on social media.
[01:02:15] I think most of our activity happens on Facebook.
[01:02:20] You can find me at Jenny.Wallig.
[01:02:24] And I think I'm OsealyCal.
[01:02:26] Yeah.
[01:02:27] At OsealyCal.
[01:02:28] Yeah.
[01:02:28] Most of our activity shows up through my profile though, I think.
[01:02:33] Or you can learn more about us and the work we do on our website, which is PowerfulLove.com.
[01:02:40] That's with one L.
[01:02:43] Yeah.
[01:02:44] We have a retreat coming up.
[01:02:46] Yep.
[01:02:47] As well as, you know, we have a few different programs to support people who are looking
[01:02:53] to achieve different goals.
[01:02:55] Yes.
[01:02:56] We'll just put it that way.
[01:02:57] Yeah.
[01:02:57] We work with people at the brink or even like discerning whether it's worth it through our
[01:03:03] commit or quit program.
[01:03:05] Mm-hmm.
[01:03:07] But we also have next level love.
[01:03:10] That's kind of where we're spending a lot more of our energy in helping people who have
[01:03:15] like a pretty good relationship go from good to great.
[01:03:17] Mm-hmm.
[01:03:18] And so, yeah, we're just, we have this secret sauce that we just feel really called to share
[01:03:26] with the rest of the world in terms of, you know, having more fulfilling relationships
[01:03:31] and ending the suffering that's caused by ones that aren't working.
[01:03:34] Yeah.
[01:03:35] And so, so we just, we want to be in service of people wherever they're at in achieving
[01:03:42] something better.
[01:03:43] Yep.
[01:03:44] Awesome.
[01:03:44] We also have, if, if anyone listening finds, would find it helpful, we have a free training
[01:03:52] called the top five tips to improving your relationship quickly.
[01:03:57] You can find that at powerfullove.com slash top five, the number.
[01:04:05] Five.
[01:04:05] Five.
[01:04:06] That'll get you a PDF with five easy tips for creating improvements in your relationship,
[01:04:12] plus a 30 minute training to go deeper on each of the concepts.
[01:04:18] So it's a really great resource for injecting a little bit more like love and joy and goodness
[01:04:25] into your relationship.
[01:04:26] Very good.
[01:04:27] Good.
[01:04:27] And we'll make sure to have all of that available with your episode.
[01:04:33] And that's the original.
[01:04:36] Do you have anything else?
[01:04:38] Well, so much more, but I know we're, you know, we'd rather do this again, definitely.
[01:04:46] Sure.
[01:04:47] We'd love to.
[01:04:47] Yeah.
[01:04:48] And really enjoyed you guys' story.
[01:04:50] And, you know, hey, that's it.
[01:04:56] Until next time.
[01:04:58] Yep.
[01:05:00] That's it.
[01:05:00] That's it.
[01:05:01] So.
[01:05:02] Thank you for having us.
[01:05:03] We would like to thank you again for joining us on this episode of Beyond I Do podcast.
[01:05:10] You are welcome back anytime.
[01:05:12] We want to hear about the retreat.
[01:05:16] We want to hear how that went so that we can maybe next time.
[01:05:21] I'm a traveler.
[01:05:25] I'm ready to go.
[01:05:27] So maybe next time we can get in ahead of time.
[01:05:31] Enjoy.
[01:05:32] Yeah.
[01:05:33] It's still ahead of time.
[01:05:34] Yeah, it is ahead of time.
[01:05:35] We're aiming for April 25.
[01:05:38] Oh.
[01:05:39] 25 in Costa Rica.
[01:05:41] Oh, even better.
[01:05:43] It is a luxury, like sweet spot.
[01:05:48] And we are going to.
[01:05:49] Everybody gets our own villa and private pool.
[01:05:51] It's kind of looking the ocean.
[01:05:53] I mean.
[01:05:54] Built into the mountain, a little bit into the rainforest, but not like where you're going
[01:05:57] to have to worry about monkeys or anything.
[01:05:58] Yeah, it's going to be just magical.
[01:06:02] And we are.
[01:06:05] We get the whole place to ourselves.
[01:06:06] Yes.
[01:06:06] The whole place rented out to ourselves.
[01:06:08] And we're packing it full of really amazing experiences and like just enough like sessions
[01:06:15] and interactions with us to make it meaningful in the growth process so that you can come
[01:06:20] home and like take it with you.
[01:06:23] It's not just a vacation, but like you leveled up as a result of being there while also like
[01:06:29] leaving plenty of space for just reconnection and relaxation and adventuring.
[01:06:34] So it's going to be.
[01:06:37] It's going to be so amazing.
[01:06:39] We're just psyched about it.
[01:06:41] Sounds amazing.
[01:06:43] And y'all aren't even like easing into it.
[01:06:46] It's like retreat.
[01:06:48] Sure.
[01:06:48] Costa Rica.
[01:06:50] You want to get up to four a year.
[01:06:53] So do them quarterly with our group coaching program.
[01:06:58] Okay.
[01:06:59] But you got to get your first one and then you're about to get four.
[01:07:03] So we have to start somewhere.
[01:07:07] We found this amazing place.
[01:07:08] So it's like, let's try this.
[01:07:11] Start here.
[01:07:11] Hopefully we will be there.
[01:07:15] Yeah.
[01:07:15] Cool.
[01:07:16] We have to see the dates.
[01:07:18] Yeah.
[01:07:18] We have to see the dates.
[01:07:19] Is it the, what are the dates?
[01:07:21] We don't have them nailed down yet, but I think it was April 19th that we were aiming
[01:07:28] for the week of.
[01:07:30] Yeah.
[01:07:31] My calendar doesn't work on this thing.
[01:07:32] Yeah.
[01:07:32] Your calendar doesn't work on that thing.
[01:07:35] We either have to start on a Saturday or end on a Saturday.
[01:07:38] And so we're just trying to figure out which direction we want to go with the dates.
[01:07:44] And the other thing.
[01:07:46] On Facebook.
[01:07:47] So I'll be looking for updates.
[01:07:49] Yeah.
[01:07:50] Yeah.
[01:07:50] Yes.
[01:07:51] We, we actually, we can send you, there's a, like a sign up for updates.
[01:07:57] It's on the retreat, like a retreat interest list.
[01:08:02] Um, we can send you that link so you can join that.
[01:08:07] And that'll give you, cause it's a really small retreat too.
[01:08:10] There's a, there's the max is five couples.
[01:08:12] Okay.
[01:08:13] Okay.
[01:08:13] So it's not going to be really big and busy.
[01:08:15] Um, and, and we want, you know, the right couples to be there so everybody can kind of jive
[01:08:21] cause it's, it's intimate work and you're going to be around other people in an intimate
[01:08:26] kind of space.
[01:08:27] Um, so, so the folks on the retreat interest list get like priority access to saying yes,
[01:08:38] or to, uh, to applying really, we'll probably have an application process, but yeah.
[01:08:43] Yeah.
[01:08:43] Let me stop the.
[01:08:45] Oh.